Services canceling

anwebservices

I thought there is nothing else to say. You can't rate canceled service! I fully understand your concerns and loss of time. In that case we offer this forum section https://www.seoclerk.com/forum/for...vice-reviews.29/ where you can freely write your review about any service or seller and explain your concerns. Don't forget to explain why are you concerned and add link to service or seller you writing about while reviewing something in that forum section

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

If there's nothing else to say, then why bother locking?

Reviewing a service on the forums is all well and good, but when people come to this site looking for service, their first thought isn't "hey, I should check their forums to see what people are saying." Their first thought is "let's look at the service offered and pay for the best deal." That is when they should be shown how frequently a vendor cancels service.

Right now, people look at a vendor and they have a 100% approval rating; so they naturally assume that means no one has any complaints. But that vendor could be canceling service left and right, consistently offering services that can't actually afford, and with the current system, they still show up as having 100% approval. Where's the consumer protection? Can you provide any reason why consumers shouldn't know up front how often a vendor they're about to hire - a vendor that promises "100% success in 24-48 hours" - then cancels because they can't provide the service they're selling? Seems like people should have a right to know that sort of thing!

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

Exactly! That's all I'm asking. To date, I have place four different vendors.

The first, youtubeviewz, order #1572974. Vendor promise 4,000, with add-on for 20k for another $7.00. So $15 for 24k views. Order was place Nov 21st. A full week later, on Nov 28th, the vendor contacted me said "Youtube Again Updated So we Fixing issue" and then told asked me to cancel and re-order...at a price of $1 per $1k. So they basically raised their pricing structure and then wanted me to pay them their new price, a week AFTER I'd placed my order in good faith. That's totally unprofessional. Yet the next time a prospective customer looks at one of this vendor's offerings? They're still going to see a 99.5% positive rating, because everyone they've done this to is unable to rate them because the order is canceled. There's no way to alert prospective customer that this is happening.
The second, klo1029, order #1590383, 2.5k views for $1. Three days in "SORRY, I HAD AN TECHNICAL ERROR ! ORDER ANOTHER TIME" And I'm out 3 days of waiting with nothing to show.
The third, sunbeam, order #1590395, 2,000 views IN 48 HOURS, with the add stating "Over delivering GUARANTEE" - 5 days later, not a single view has come in. I asked for and update. "price change ! 1k views $2 so can i add 500 views ?" I'm already pissed off that after failing to deliver on their promise, they didn't tell me anything about a price change until I asked them. But whatever, I agreed, and asked how long it would take. She said "12-24 hours!" 28 hours later, still not a single view. I asked again, "what's the hold up?" She said "checking..." and that was 23 hours ago. It's been a week now. Still no views. I doubt I'll ever see one. My options are now to cancel and start this whole process again with another vendor, or cancel, and not able to rate this vendor. Again, if I cancel out, or she says "oops, I can't do this" prospective customers will have no idea this happened.
The fourth vendor watson, order #1590401 promised 1,200 views, with a bonus 10k for $8. Ad says "All orders start within 12-24 Hours and delivery within 10-24 hours." 2 days after placing my order, I asked why I hadn't seen a single view. "please I ahve some problem in my server ,
So please wait few days." Again, did this vendor volunteer this information? When they discovered this "problem in their server," did immediately contact all their customers that might be impacted, like a pro would? No. They waited until I contacted them. It's now been a week. Not a single view.

I've been playing this game since November 21st. I've gotten the run-around from four different vendors. My video has a total of 65 views, and every one of them was from me personally checking it from different places to see if my views had come in. And when I go to the "venting" forum to put voice to this, I get my thread locked and told "oh people would abuse that. Not going to happen." So I guess the customer doesn't matter. People who are thinking about using these vendors should have a way of knowing about this stuff before they place their order. I can promise you this: once I get the views I need? I'm not ever going to even consider coming to Seoclerk dot com again. Exactly! That's all I'm asking. To date, I have place four different vendors. [list=1][*]The first, [B]youtubeviewz, [/B]order #1572974. Vendor promise 4,000, with add-on for 20k for another $7.00. So $15 for 24k views. Order was place Nov 21st. A full [B]week[/B] later, on Nov 28th, the vendor contacted me said "Youtube Again Updated So we Fixing issue" and then told asked me to cancel and re-order...at a price of $1 per $1k. So they basically raised their pricing structure and then wanted me to pay them their new price, a week AFTER I'd placed my order in good faith. That's [B]totally[/B] unprofessional. Yet the next time a prospective customer looks at one of this vendor's offerings? They're still going to see a 99.5% positive rating, because everyone they've done this to is unable to rate them because the order is canceled. There's no way to alert prospective customer that this is happening.[/*][*]The second, klo1029, order #1590383, 2.5k views for $1. Three days in "SORRY, I HAD AN TECHNICAL ERROR ! ORDER ANOTHER TIME" And I'm out 3 days of waiting with nothing to show.[/*][*]The third, [B]sunbeam, [/B]order #1590395, 2,000 views [B]IN 48 HOURS, [/B]with the add stating "[I]Over delivering GUARANTEE" - [/I]5 days later, not a single view has come in. I asked for and update. "price change ! 1k views $2 so can i add 500 views ?" I'm already pissed off that after failing to deliver on their promise, they didn't tell me anything about a price change until [B]I [/B]asked [B]them. [/B]But whatever, I agreed, and asked how long it would take. She said "12-24 hours!" 28 hours later, still not a single view. I asked again, "what's the hold up?" She said "checking..." and that was 23 hours ago. It's been a week now. Still no views. I doubt I'll ever see one. My options are now to cancel and start this whole process again with [B]another[/B] vendor, or cancel, and not able to rate this vendor. Again, if I cancel out, or she says "oops, I can't do this" prospective customers will have no idea this happened.[/*][*]The fourth vendor watson, order #1590401 promised 1,200 views, with a bonus 10k for $8. Ad says "All orders start within 12-24 Hours and delivery within 10-24 hours." 2 days after placing my order, I asked why I hadn't seen a single view. "please I ahve some problem in my server ,[/*]So please wait few days." Again, did this vendor volunteer this information? When they discovered this "problem in their server," did immediately contact all their customers that might be impacted, like a pro would? No. They waited until I contacted them. It's now been a [B]week[/B]. Not a single view. [/LIST] I've been playing this game since November 21st. I've gotten the run-around from four different vendors. My video has a total of 65 views, and every one of them was from me personally checking it from different places to see if my views had come in. And when I go to the "venting" forum to put voice to this, I get my thread locked and told "oh people would abuse that. Not going to happen." So I guess the customer doesn't matter. People who are thinking about using these vendors should have a way of [B]knowing[/B] about this stuff [B]before[/B] they place their order. I can promise you this: once I get the views I need? I'm not ever going to even [B]consider[/B] coming to Seoclerk dot com again.

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

That's alright, at this point I don't even need the service anymore. But I'm still bothered on principle. So I decide an illustration is in order.

Case study 1: Watson (link removed because I'm not allowed to link until I've got 10 posts and 190 days). Watson advertises "Instantly start" in his headline, and in the description, he says "NOW SUPER FAST SPEED . NORMALLY WITHIN 10-24 HOURS" and later in the same listing "??? All orders start within 12-24 Hours and delivery within 10-24 hours."

So I engage his services on November 29th. The Automatic message informed me that the expected delivery day was Dec 6th. I don't know why it gave him a week for something that he claims would be delivered in 24 hours. Already, something's off.

December 1st: About 37 hours later. 0 views. I ask for an update. 12 hours later, I'm told "please I ahve some problem in my server , So please wait few days........." Note this was not relayed to me when it was discovered. He didn't do the professional thing and notify his customers that service would be delayed. He waited until after I contacted him to mention it. And that's assuming he's even telling the truth.

December 8th: 10 days have passed. 0 views. I ask for an update. All I get is "pleaswe sir"

So, at this point; it's been over 2 weeks and I haven't seen a single view. If I cancel, I can't rate him; because, according to the powers that be "you get your money back, so it is the same as you never bought them... In that case, why would you rate them at all." So his record remains completely unaffected by this, and the next person who comes across this listing - which I might add is still up and attracting customers, despite his "problem in sever" - has no indication of this kind of stunt.

Case study 2: Sunbeam (link removed because I'm not allowed to link until I've got 10 posts and 190 days). Sunbeam 2,000 views in 48 hours. So I engaged her services on November 29th. Again, I'm told the expected delivery date is not 48 hours, but 5 days later; December 4th. So on December 4th, I mentioned that it's been 5 days and I hadn't seen a single view. Sunbeams says "price change ! 1k views $2 so can i add 500 views ?"

Great. So the prince changed after I paid. You know, generally, in the business world, when you change your prices, you honor your original contracts and applied the new pricing structure to new customers. But whatever, I agreed because at this point I've been screwed twice and just want my views. I agree, and I'm told I'll see my views in 12-24 hours.

27 hours later, I ask why I still have not seen a single view. I'm told "i am checking..........."

Another 3 days after she "started checking" and I've not heard a peep from her. Nor have I seen a single view. I ask for an update, and I'm told "starting soon."

For those of you counting, at this point, it's a full week after I placed my order for this "48 hour delivery" service, 4 days after the "expected delivery date" and 4 days after well past the time frame I was told after the pricing debacle, and she says she's starting soon.

And that was a week ago. So, here I sit. 2 weeks removed. Not a single view. No communication from the vendor. If I cancel, she maintains her rating. Again, the next person who comes across this listing - which I might add is still up and attracting customers - has no indication of this kind of stunt.

And God only knows how many people have had this experience. People, I might add; who under better circumstances might return to SEO Clerks looking for other services, and might hire any of you sellers; but instead, will probably never come back again, because they deal with things like this, and then when they come to a forum that's ostensibly to let them vent their frustrations, their threads are locked, and they're spoken to as if they are trying to get one over.

That's alright, at this point I don't even need the service anymore. But I'm still bothered on principle. So I decide an illustration is in order. Case study 1: Watson (link removed because I'm not allowed to link until I've got 10 posts and 190 days). Watson advertises "Instantly start" in his headline, and in the description, he says "NOW SUPER FAST SPEED . NORMALLY WITHIN 10-24 HOURS" and later in the same listing "??? All orders start within 12-24 Hours and delivery within 10-24 hours." So I engage his services on November 29th. The Automatic message informed me that the expected delivery day was Dec 6th. I don't know why it gave him a [B]week[/B] for something that he claims would be delivered in 24 hours. Already, something's off. December 1st: About 37 hours later. 0 views. I ask for an update. 12 hours later, I'm told "please I ahve some problem in my server , So please wait few days........." Note this was not relayed to me when it was discovered. He didn't do the professional thing and notify his customers that service would be delayed. He waited until after [B]I [/B] contacted [B]him[/B] to mention it. And that's assuming he's even telling the truth. December 8th: 10 days have passed. 0 views. I ask for an update. All I get is "pleaswe sir" So, at this point; it's been over 2 weeks and I haven't seen a single view. If I cancel, I can't rate him; because, according to the powers that be "[I]you get your money back, so it is the same as you never bought them... In that case, why would you rate them at all." [/I]So his record remains completely unaffected by this, and the next person who comes across this listing - which I might add is [B]still[/B] up and attracting customers, despite his "problem in sever" - has no indication of this kind of stunt. [url=http://www.wraithtdk.com/imagedump/support/SEO_Clerks/SEO_Clerks_1.1.jpg][IMG]http://www.wraithtdk.com/imagedump/support/SEO_Clerks/SEO_Clerks_1.1.jpg[/IMG][/url] Case study 2: Sunbeam (link removed because I'm not allowed to link until I've got 10 posts and 190 days). Sunbeam 2,000 views [B]in 48 hours.[/B] So I engaged her services on November 29th. Again, I'm told the expected delivery date is not 48 hours, but 5 days later; December 4th. So on December 4th, I mentioned that it's been 5 days and I hadn't seen a single view. Sunbeams says "price change ! 1k views $2 so can i add 500 views ?" Great. So the prince changed [B]after[/B] I paid. You know, generally, in the business world, when you change your prices, you honor your original contracts and applied the new pricing structure to [B]new[/B] customers. But whatever, I agreed because at this point I've been screwed twice and just want my views. I agree, and I'm told I'll see my views in 12-24 hours. 27 hours later, I ask why I still have not seen a single view. I'm told "i am checking..........." [B]Another[/B] 3 days after she "started checking" and I've not heard a peep from her. Nor have I seen a single view. I ask for an update, and I'm told "starting soon." For those of you counting, at this point, it's a full [B]week[/B] after I placed my order for this "48 hour delivery" service, 4 days after the "expected delivery date" and 4 days after well past the time frame I was told after the pricing debacle, and she says she's [B]starting[/B] soon. And that was a week ago. So, here I sit. 2 weeks removed. Not a single view. No communication from the vendor. If I cancel, she maintains her rating. Again, the next person who comes across this listing - which I might add is [B]still[/B] up and attracting customers - has no indication of this kind of stunt. And God only knows how many people have had this experience. People, I might add; who under better circumstances might return to SEO Clerks looking for other services, and might hire any of you sellers; but instead, will probably never come back again, because they deal with things like this, and then when they come to a forum that's ostensibly to let them vent their frustrations, their threads are locked, and they're spoken to as if [B]they[/B] are trying to get one over. [url=http://www.wraithtdk.com/imagedump/support/SEO_Clerks/SEO_Clerks_2.jpg][IMG]http://www.wraithtdk.com/imagedump/support/SEO_Clerks/SEO_Clerks_2.jpg[/IMG][/url]

10 years ago

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hitmeasap

Hello,
This was quite a long read so I'm sorry if I actually forgot something when I write what I'm about to..

First of all, I'm truly sorry for your experience. It's sad that sellers are acting this way. Secondly, I love your suggestion about the "cancellation counter". That would be kind of "protection" for buyers for starters, but also something that makes sellers more careful when it comes to order cancellations, as this will actually affect their business.

SEOClerks have always been striving for active, professional and trustworthy sellers, (I know there's a few rotten eggs every now and then) but something like this can actually be "ground-breaking" for this marketplace.

With this said, I think you'll have to implement something like this properly. Just having a counter that states how many times someone has cancelled orders could be misleading. At least in some cases. Especially when it comes to social media services.

Here's an example: (I'm a former social media service provider)
Social media service providers often provides their services for nickels and dimes. ($1 and $2.) They manage to do this because of the panels they're using. They spend $0,60 etc for 1,000 likes or so, sell it for $1, and they end up with $0,20 in profit. They earn by quantity. (Especially when the competition is incredibly tough nowadays). They earn by volume, that's the way it is.

As soon as the panel owner change the price, (which happens from time to time due to updates on various platforms etc.) The sellers ends up in a bad position. The $0,60 they usually spend for 1,000 likes have increased to $0,80 or perhaps even more than that.. Which automatically makes them lose money if they deliver their orders.. That's the reason most social media service providers cancel orders. They can't afford the deliveries when they have 50+ or 100+ orders in queue. This is tricky.

A seller should't lose money on their deliveries but they shouldn't be able to cancel orders so easily either, since that'll result in unsatisfied clients. Some clients might be resellers for instance. They really need those 1,000 likes within 48 hours as promised. Everyone hasn't that chance to just cancel orders without some sort of punishment. Something needs to be done. I hear you and I agree.

With all this said, it's the sellers responsibility to deliver their orders.. No matter what. They should do whatever they can to satisfy their clients. They should do whatever they can to make this deliveries happen. So even if they need to spend $10 on each order because of some updates on their panels or whatever, they should do it. They know the risks and they still decided to provide these services.

So yeah, I do understand the reasons for cancellations and I appreciate that option. It's a great option but I truly believe cancellations should affect you in some way. However, I have no idea of how something like this should work, as mutual cancellations in some scenarions shouldn't affect you at all but in others affect you directly.

@jordan you should take a look at this thread.. And the suggestion.

Best Regards,
hitmeasap Hello, This was quite a long read so I'm sorry if I actually forgot something when I write what I'm about to.. First of all, I'm truly sorry for your experience. It's sad that sellers are acting this way. Secondly, I love your suggestion about the "cancellation counter". That would be kind of "protection" for buyers for starters, but also something that makes sellers more careful when it comes to order cancellations, as this will actually affect their business. SEOClerks have always been striving for active, professional and trustworthy sellers, (I know there's a few rotten eggs every now and then) but something like this can actually be "ground-breaking" for this marketplace. With this said, I think you'll have to implement something like this properly. Just having a counter that states how many times someone has cancelled orders could be misleading. At least in some cases. Especially when it comes to social media services. [B]Here's an example: [/B](I'm a former social media service provider) Social media service providers often provides their services for nickels and dimes. ($1 and $2.) They manage to do this because of the panels they're using. They spend $0,60 etc for 1,000 likes or so, sell it for $1, and they end up with $0,20 in profit. They earn by quantity. (Especially when the competition is incredibly tough nowadays). They earn by volume, that's the way it is. As soon as the panel owner change the price, (which happens from time to time due to updates on various platforms etc.) The sellers ends up in a bad position. The $0,60 they usually spend for 1,000 likes have increased to $0,80 or perhaps even more than that.. Which automatically makes them lose money if they deliver their orders.. That's the reason most social media service providers cancel orders. They can't afford the deliveries when they have 50+ or 100+ orders in queue. This is tricky. A seller should't lose money on their deliveries but they shouldn't be able to cancel orders so easily either, since that'll result in unsatisfied clients. Some clients might be resellers for instance. They really need those 1,000 likes within 48 hours as promised. Everyone hasn't that chance to just cancel orders without some sort of punishment. Something needs to be done. I hear you and I agree. With all this said, it's the sellers responsibility to deliver their orders.. No matter what. They should do whatever they can to satisfy their clients. They should do whatever they can to make this deliveries happen. So even if they need to spend $10 on each order because of some updates on their panels or whatever, they should do it. They know the risks and they still decided to provide these services. So yeah, I do understand the reasons for cancellations and I appreciate that option. It's a great option but I truly believe cancellations should affect you in some way. However, I have no idea of how something like this should work, as mutual cancellations in some scenarions shouldn't affect you at all but in others affect you directly. @[USER=1]jordan[/USER] you should take a look at this thread.. And the suggestion. Best Regards, hitmeasap

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

I understand the frustrations of logistical difficulties. But part of running a business (at this point I should mention I run my own on-site IT company) is anticipating demand, and - more importantly - not over-committing. If you provide on-site service, you give yourself a window. You block of more time than you expect it to take. Sure, time is money, and you're losing out on time you could be scheduling someone else; but you do it because you never know what will happen, and you need to ensure that you'll be on time for your next job. If you get there and the job is done without using that extra time, you've lost a bit of potential income, but that's an operating cost.

When you're producing or selling a product, you don't take orders unless you can produce that quantity. If you reach the limit of what you can reasonably do, you put a hold on orders until you're caught up. That's part of being a professional. But first and foremost, rule #1 is to honor your agreements. If you say "this will be done in 2 days," you don't wait 2 weeks before starting.

And what's worse, they're STILL offering these services at the same price. If their suppliers are charging more, and they can't fill orders, they need to pull those services from the market immediately. Instead, if that's the case, then at this point they're accepting orders they know they can't fill. For that there's just no excuse.

But what's worse is the Watson claims he's having technical issues. I doubt that's true, but if it is? That's when you contact your buyers. If I'm on my way to a job, and there's a big wreck on the interstate that's turned it into a parking lot; the first thing I do is pick up my phone and call the customer. "The interstate is a parking lot, I'm going to get there ASAP, but I'm going to run late." If I have to replace a part on a take-home job, and the part is delayed in shipping, I call the customer. Watson waited until I contacted HIM. Sunbeam didn't hit me with her price change until AFTER I contacted her, and then continuously waited for me to contact her for updates.

Letting people know that services have a record of canceling isn't anything personal. It's a matter of professionalism. If they've continuously taken more orders than they can fill; they're failing as businessperson, and their record should reflect that. I understand the frustrations of logistical difficulties. But part of running a business (at this point I should mention I run my own on-site IT company) is anticipating demand, and - more importantly - not over-committing. If you provide on-site service, you give yourself a window. You block of more time than you expect it to take. Sure, time is money, and you're losing out on time you could be scheduling someone else; but you do it because you never know what will happen, and you need to ensure that you'll be on time for your next job. If you get there and the job is done without using that extra time, you've lost a bit of potential income, but that's an operating cost. When you're producing or selling a product, you don't take orders unless you can produce that quantity. If you reach the limit of what you can reasonably do, you put a hold on orders until you're caught up. That's part of being a professional. But first and foremost, rule #1 is to honor your agreements. If you say "this will be done in 2 [B]days[/B]," you don't wait 2 [B]weeks[/B] before starting. And what's worse, they're [B]STILL[/B] offering these services at the [B]same[/B] price. If their suppliers are charging more, and they can't fill orders, they need to pull those services from the market immediately. Instead, if that's the case, then at this point they're accepting orders they [B]know[/B] they can't fill. For that there's just no excuse. But what's worse is the Watson claims he's having technical issues. I doubt that's true, but if it is? That's when you contact your buyers. If I'm on my way to a job, and there's a big wreck on the interstate that's turned it into a parking lot; the first thing I do is pick up my phone and call the customer. "The interstate is a parking lot, I'm going to get there ASAP, but I'm going to run late." If I have to replace a part on a take-home job, and the part is delayed in shipping, I call the customer. Watson waited until I contacted HIM. Sunbeam didn't hit me with her price change until AFTER I contacted her, and then continuously waited for me to contact her for updates. Letting people know that services have a record of canceling isn't anything personal. It's a matter of professionalism. If they've continuously taken more orders than they can fill; they're failing as businessperson, and their record should reflect that.

10 years ago

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aditya

Can we perhaps have a dialogue about this? In my last thread I was told that we can't rate a vendor who cancelled on us because they said they couldn't provide the service they promise because

"You can't rate cancelled services because you get your money back, so it is the same as you never bought them... In that case, why would you rate them at all. Many people would create fake accounts and leave negative ratings to kill competitors... It's not going to happen."

And then the thread was locked. I don't feel like the issue is being addressed or even understood.

First of all, getting refunded is not "like I never ordered from them." Not at all. If I order from a service, and 3 days later they cancel and refund me, and take the refund and engage another service who takes 4 days and then cancels? Yea, I've still got my money, but I've had a full week of my time that's been completely wasted by these people, and my order is still not complete. It's a week later, and I still have to find someone to fulfill this order. That's a problem. So no, it's not like I never ordered, because I'm now in a worse position.

Secondly, you mention the potential for abuse if people could just create multiple accounts, order, then cancel and leave negative feedback. I don't think you're understanding what I said; and I don't understand why you'd lock that a thread from a concerned customer in your "venting" forum instead of allowing further explanation.

I don't want to be able to sign up for a service, cancel it, and then leave negative feedback. Obviously that would be abused. I want to be able to rate and warn when the vendor says they are unable to provide the service they promote and requests cancellations. The only way that would be abused is if a vendor was constantly doing that, in which case that's the sort of thing people should know about. There is a huge difference between "customer cancelled order" and "vendor cancelled because they can't fulfill their commitment." At the very least, there should be an automatic counter showing how many times a vendor has cancelled due to their inability to deliver on their promise.

Really, this is just common sense.

Really very serious matter you have raised here. There must be a counter for cancelled orders by seller. [quote]Can we perhaps have a dialogue about this? In my last thread I was told that we can't rate a vendor who cancelled on us because they said they couldn't provide the service they promise because "[I]You can't rate cancelled services because you get your money back, so it is the same as you never bought them... In that case, why would you rate them at all. Many people would create fake accounts and leave negative ratings to kill competitors... It's not going to happen[/I]." And then the thread was locked. I don't feel like the issue is being addressed or even understood. First of all, getting refunded is [B]not[/B] "like I never ordered from them." Not at all. If I order from a service, and 3 days later they cancel and refund me, and take the refund and engage another service who takes 4 days and then cancels? Yea, I've still got my money, but I've had a full [B]week[/B] of my time that's been completely [B]wasted[/B] by these people, and my order is still not [B]complete[/B]. It's a week later, and I still have to find someone to fulfill this order. That's a problem. So no, it's not like I never ordered, because I'm now in a worse position. Secondly, you mention the potential for abuse if people could just create multiple accounts, order, then cancel and leave negative feedback. I don't think you're understanding what I said; and I don't understand why you'd lock that a thread from a concerned customer in your "venting" forum instead of allowing further explanation. I don't want to be able to sign up for a service, cancel it, and then leave negative feedback. [B]Obviously[/B] that would be abused. I want to be able to rate and warn [B]when the vendor says they are unable to provide the service they promote and requests cancellations[/B]. The only way [B]that[/B] would be abused is if a vendor was constantly [B]doing[/B] that, in which case that's the sort of thing people should [B]know[/B] about. There is a huge difference between "customer cancelled order" and "vendor cancelled because they can't fulfill their commitment." At the [B]very[/B] least, there should be an automatic counter showing how many times a [B]vendor[/B] has cancelled due to their inability to deliver on their promise. Really, this is just common sense.[/quote] Really very serious matter you have raised here. There must be a counter for cancelled orders by seller.

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

Unbelievable. So, as an epilogue to the little saga with Sunbeam, she FINALLY delivered - 500 views short and 2 weeks late. So I left her negative feedback.

Was that unreasonable? I didn't get personal, or mean, I just stuck to what my grievance was, and I think it's a relevant complaint. Is there any reason I wouldn't leave negative feedback after this? Of course there isn't and yet...

Again, I didn't get personal, I just stuck to the facts. Her service was terrible. It was unprofessional. It was late. No way I was removing that feedback. So what do I get for dealing with alllllll of this?

I get negative feedback from her. Unbelievable. If they cancel, you can't leave negative feedback. If they're two weeks late and you cancel, you can't leave negative feedback. If you stick it out and give them negative feedback? You get retaliatory feedback.

This whole system is designed from the ground up in a way that ensures the customer loses.

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

I know they didn't purposely design the system to screw the customers, but regardless of intent, it absolutely does. Seller can't deliver? They cancel, you can't leave negative feedback, there's no record that they failed to deliver, which means the next person to come along sees their feedback rating and assumes there's never been an issue. Seller is weeks late? Your money gets held hostage. If you cancel, you can't leave negative feedback, there's no record of what they did, which means the next person to come along sees their feedback rating and assumes there's never been an issue. Stick it out for the duration just so you can leave negative feedback (which is what I'm doing with Watson right now, FYI. The guy finally responded and said "I will deliver in 48 hours now," but that was a WEEK ago on the 17th)? The seller leaves negative feedback as "payback." You know, was such a regularly occurring problem on eBay that they eventually got rid of buyer feedback, because it wasn't doing anyone any good. That "99% satisfaction rate" was meaningless because buyers were afraid of leaving honest feedback for fear they'd get negative feedback on them for telling the truth.

And then, to add insult to injury, the first time I came to the venting thread to vent, I get my thread locked for suggesting this is a problem, and my thread gets locked because "anything else would be unfair to the sellers." Which, it seems pretty clear, is all that matters here. Never mind the fact that sellers are useless to them without buyers. I wonder how many customers SEO Clerks - and by extension all the sellers who use their service - have lost because of experiences like mine? Because I'll tell you right now; if I ever need service again, I'm not coming back here. Why on earth would I? Four tries, four different vendors, four disasters. It's not worth it.

10 years ago

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Asmodeus

@hitmeasap summed it up nicely by explaining how resellers work, as these sellers are ALL simply resellers of someone else's service and adding a slight markup. When YT made the last update it screwed a lot of views sellers, as they couldn't fulfill their orders until THEIR reseller panel got updated to the changes. And while I agree with much of what you and "hitme" have said, I don't agree that a seller MUST take the hit if there is an increase in what THEY have to pay to provide the service, mainly because most of these sellers are from low wage countries where losing $10 or whatever is a HUGE blow to them, and by extension, their families that need food, rent, etc. A buyer isn't actually out any money because they get refunded. It's the sellers who actually stand to lose the most.

Regarding the cancellation "counter": They have something similar on Fiverr, but it's not an accurate reflection of services rendered at all. I have a service there with something like a 75% cancellation rate, but it's not due to me WANTING to cancel, but because most buyers never read my description carefully enough and end up ordering without contacting me FIRST, which is what I need them to do to make sure their link qualifies for my special service. It frustrates me to no end when I see an order from a buyer who hasn't contacted me, knowing I'll likely have to cancel it because they don't fully understand what they are ordering. It happens to me here as well. Should I be penalized for a buyer's lack of understanding??

However, I certainly do understand your frustration and think there should be a major rethink of how business is done on Seoclerks, as the complaints have been mounting lately and should not be ignored.

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

The consumer is not responsible for a vendor who can't do their job. I've BEEN in situations where losing $10 is a big deal, when I was trying to get my own business off the ground. I lived in a run-down motel that was converted into government-subsidized, low-income housing. I ate 25 cent cup-o-noodles and used tea candles from the dollar store for heat.

Know what else I did? I contacted my customers when I knew I was going to be late. I fulfilled my contracts when doing so meant losing money. Know what I didn't do? I didn't continue advertising a service that I knew I couldn't provide.

If these people's issue is that they're reselling someone else's service? Then as soon as that service starts having problems, it's their responsibly to contact their customers and tell them that. Not to wait until their buyers contact them. Being poor doesn't stop you from doing that. And if these people's margins are so tight that a price change from their vendors means they cant' fulfill their contracts, then they need to stop taking contacts. Them over-booking themselves is a problem on their end, not mine.

Watson still hasn't fulfilled his end of our deal. I ordered on November 17th. It was supposed to take 48 hours.

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

Watson still hasn't fulfilled his end of our deal. I ordered on November 17th. It was supposed to take 48 hours.

Remember when I said this? Guess what? I JUST SAW AN EMAIL SAYING IT COMPLETED. The deal was for 48 hours, it took half a year. HALF. A FREAKING. YEAR.

Now tell me that I shouldn't have been able to cancel at some point during all that time and still leave negative feedback. AND he's PM'ing me now asking me to take back the negative feedback in exchange for 1,000 more views. I don't need 1,000 more views NOW. I needed views in NOVEMBER. When I ORDERED them.

10 years ago

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Asmodeus

The consumer is not responsible for a vendor who can't do their job. I've BEEN in situations where losing $10 is a big deal, when I was trying to get my own business off the ground. I lived in a run-down motel that was converted into government-subsidized, low-income housing. I ate 25 cent cup-o-noodles and used tea candles from the dollar store for heat.

Know what else I did? I contacted my customers when I knew I was going to be late. I fulfilled my contracts when doing so meant losing money. Know what I didn't do? I didn't continue advertising a service that I knew I couldn't provide.

If these people's issue is that they're reselling someone else's service? Then as soon as that service starts having problems, it's their responsibly to contact their customers and tell them that. Not to wait until their buyers contact them. Being poor doesn't stop you from doing that. And if these people's margins are so tight that a price change from their vendors means they cant' fulfill their contracts, then they need to stop taking contacts. Them over-booking themselves is a problem on their end, not mine.

Watson still hasn't fulfilled his end of our deal. I ordered on November 17th. It was supposed to take 48 hours.

Absolutely, I agree with you that the seller should contact the buyer whenever there is a problem or delay, no matter where they get their services from. It's not the buyers fault. I'd just like to see a system put in place that actually works rather than seeing so many complaints around here lately. Obviously the current system allows these bad sellers to continue what they are doing wrong, so it needs to be changed for the better.

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

youtube views, facebook likes, twitter followers these type of services generally have problem else all other services are best and running successfully.

That may be, but SEO Clerks is supporting the sale of Views/Likes/Follows; so they have an ethical responsibility to take measure to protect their customers.

10 years ago

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WraithTDK

Holy crap it finally happened.

10 years ago

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Barida

You have the right to cancel orders and I think that is the way you're going to go about this. Just do it yourself if the buyers default in delivering the work to you.

8 years ago

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SEOClerks

Services canceling